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+--- Thread: FOOTHOLD feedback (/showthread.php?tid=2716)
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FOOTHOLD feedback - alias - 08-15-2014
Thank you guys for taking the time and give my mission a try. Please share your suggestions.
My experience.
I was able to find things to improve and optimize, weather script didn't work as expected. Sry for making you blind or deaf. I was looking for a real storm feeling. Some variables didn't quite work as expected despite off and online multiple tests in SP and MP where i had good results.
I was an RPG player in the past when i had time to play, so my take on missions and games is to give players the freedom of choice, however this approach is difficult since there are so many variables to take in consideration and still make an entertaining mission.
In my view this mission was supposed to be a flare fest at the beginning, i didn't expect you not to go for Niko's Safe House for better gear or look around LZ for vehicles and stuff
But i will fix that 8) i only want to do it without forcing players, evading will still be an option.That proves how different groups behave differently, in my previous MP alpha tests everyone went to search for better gear since we had crappy stuff at the beginning and weather didn't help.
On purpose i left the choice for players on what to do:
- stay away from action go straight to objective as undetected as possible and deal with whatever mission might bring at the end, basically you can get on airfield in 10 minutes or less and hold it for another 10 min or so
- give squads different paths and areas to approach and get in firefights
- bunch up together, form a convoy and do whatever
In mission there are convoys, patrols APC/ foot/ Air, but I don't force them in, i wanted stealth to remain an option, they are triggered only by some actions or player detection.
However there are enemies around the map wandering, but maybe not enough to make them count.
Since i wasn't on map until the end i'd like to know how you feel about the mission and if
- was/felt too easy?
- was/felt too long?
- something didn't make sense?
Based on my observations and your input i'll polish the mission and release the final version.
Also will help me working on next episodes, i have material for at least 2 or 3 episodes.
Thank you!
Re: FOOTHOLD feedback - Varanon - 08-15-2014
The mission was good, there was only a few things I didn't like:
* The weather was overdone. Half of the time, I couldn't hear what people were saying. The beginning with all the tracer fire was cool and the storm added to the atmosphere, but as a tool for setting the mood, it worked, but you should ease up a bit on it. Maybe reduce the volume after those two minutes ?
Also, due to the bad lighting conditions, things got a bit messy at the start. I would suggest giving one or two members of the team flashlights for their guns (maybe even only for their pistol so you need to switch to pistol if you want to see).
For me, the start of the mission was very frustrating due to the noise and low light. Try leading in such a situation, and you'll know what I mean.
* I appreciate the idea of freedom but I prefer task markers, or at least a clear list of goals for the mission. The briefing was a bit loaded with information, and the fact that we need to capture and hold the airport was just one sentence, the rest was other information.
If you want to skip on task markers, I'd suggest to add a page to the briefing that just contains a very short description of what needs to be done, even if it's Sander mission style (Alpha has to blow up shit after killing some dude and extract)
That's basically it.
One more thing of a technical nature, JIP'ing into the mission will cause the countdown timer to run again, and the thunderstorm to start again, even if it's already gone by that time. You might want to check for join in progress and decide what to do according to mission time...
Apart from that, good mission
Re: FOOTHOLD feedback - alias - 08-15-2014
(08-15-2014, 11:50 AM)Varanon link Wrote: * The weather was overdone. Half of the time, I couldn't hear what people were saying. The beginning with all the tracer fire was cool and the storm added to the atmosphere, but as a tool for setting the mood, it worked, but you should ease up a bit on it. Maybe reduce the volume after those two minutes ?
That was the idea, is something i need fixing.
(08-15-2014, 11:50 AM)Varanon link Wrote: For me, the start of the mission was very frustrating due to the noise and low light. Try leading in such a situation, and you'll know what I mean.
Yup, i agree with you. That's why i placed a low hanging fruit as Smuggler house and few other things near the beach. Agree with you on initial loadout.
(08-15-2014, 11:50 AM)Varanon link Wrote: One more thing of a technical nature, JIP'ing into the mission will cause the countdown timer to run again, and the thunderstorm to start again, even if it's already gone by that time. You might want to check for join in progress and decide what to do according to mission time...
I wasn't aware of that until last night when i rejoined, when i left the server i wanted to give you the variable name to disable storm since debug console is on but forgot. Sorry!
(08-15-2014, 11:50 AM)Varanon link Wrote: If you want to skip on task markers, I'd suggest to add a page to the briefing that just contains a very short description of what needs to be done, even if it's Sander mission style (Alpha has to blow up shit after killing some dude and extract)
Good point, I'll tweak briefing.
Thanks!
Re: FOOTHOLD feedback - Alwarren - 08-15-2014
Have to echo Varanon's thoughts. Great mission, the only thing is the thunder which was getting really irritating, and the briefing which was sometimes hard to follow.
I am really looking forward to your next one
Re: FOOTHOLD feedback - alias - 08-15-2014
Thanks AL!
Do you all think is too easy for 15 players?
Re: FOOTHOLD feedback - Variable - 08-15-2014
Great mission Alias! Few observations and suggestions:
First of all, I want to say that I think that this was the best mission of the night, and with a bit of small adjustment I think it will be even better. Looking forward to playing more of your missions!
Yes, as you can see doveman's debriefing post, his team was too big for the job and didn't see much action. I guess you should reduce his team as he suggests.
The opening scene is awesome. If it was a little bit brighter so we could see better it would have been even better. Although all the war that was going on, the landing was uneventful which was a bit of an anti-climax. I suggest to add some beach defenses that survive the air strike and have some armor that the partisan team must destroy to allow us to land. It will be great if the boat will have to land quickly due to the submarine threat and the partisans will have to be quick in destroying the tanks to enable our landing.
I didn't mind the dark night and the bad weather, quite the contrary. It was very immersive, but it is definitely a condition that must end quickly by acquiring NVGs. So I suggest - 1. make the lighting a bit brighter, and allow for raiding an enemy position which is closer to the beach. When we finally got to the road block it was a very fun battle, they had NVGs, but I guess that because of the bad weather they didn't see us coming and we could get really close before they noticed us. 2. That was very fun, but the hike to that point was just too long. Need such battle to happen quicker, so put such an enemy position closer. 3. give the players flash lights.
Don't even think of giving the players GPS and NVGs! Guerrillas must fight to get those
The attack on the airfield was a bit disappointing - it should be the peak of the mission. I suggest adding more defenses there.
Re: FOOTHOLD feedback - Alwarren - 08-15-2014
(08-15-2014, 04:30 PM)Variable link Wrote: I didn't mind the dark night and the bad weather, quite the contrary. It was very immersive, but it is definitely a condition that must end quickly by acquiring NVGs.
I didn't mind the dark either, nor the bad weather. It was just that the flashes and lightning were too frequent, and became quite bewildering.
Re: FOOTHOLD feedback - Outlawz7 - 08-15-2014
I took a look at your mission, because I find the thunderstorm script great, but there's no delay in it, which is why the lightning strikes happen non-stop.
I added a sleep command in between the start of the while loop and first line and it's much better.
Quote:while {fulgerON} do {
sleep 20+random 15;
private "_relativePosition";
Re: FOOTHOLD feedback - alias - 08-16-2014
Cheers Otlw
There are 3 scripts using different set of sounds and effect, only at the beginning the storm should be strong and loud, problem is the other scripts didn't kick in when they should and first script failed to stop. There is a public variable issue i think and the fact i used dynamic generated triggers.
I plan to use only one script and check the time in mission so changes will occur based on time passed.
I plan using fn_vbs_timeDifference
You have a better suggestion?
Re: FOOTHOLD feedback - Alwarren - 08-16-2014
(08-16-2014, 07:23 PM)alias link Wrote: I plan using fn_vbs_timeDifference
I would be surprised if that mission is available. It sounds like a VBS function.
Re: FOOTHOLD feedback - alias - 08-16-2014
It is a function https://resources.bisimulations.com/w/index.php?title=fn_vbs_timeDifference
I wonder what will be less resource consuming: sleep, a time counter, or the use of function from above.
I suppose triggers' countdown and timeout use some kind of counter pretty similar with sleep.
Re: FOOTHOLD feedback - Alwarren - 08-16-2014
(08-16-2014, 07:32 PM)alias link Wrote: It is a function https://resources.bisimulations.com/w/index.php?title=fn_vbs_timeDifference
Yes, but you are looking at Bohemia Simulation's wiki. The function is not available on Arma games. You should refer to this page https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Main_Page
Quote:I wonder what will be less resource consuming: sleep, a time counter, or the use of function from above.
I suppose triggers' countdown and timeout use some kind of counter pretty similar with sleep.
Sleep should be the most effective solution. Anything else you will have to implement yourself, either with an on-frame-callback, a waitUntil, or an FSM that checks the time. All of these cause more overhead.
Re: FOOTHOLD feedback - alias - 08-17-2014
Thanks AL.
I'm using "time" to trigger weather change. Should i worry? Works fine on local didn't test on dedicated yet.
Re: FOOTHOLD feedback - Outlawz7 - 08-18-2014
Yes.
https://community.bistudio.com/wiki/time
Quote:Arma 3 JIP bug: As of Arma 3 v1.02, for JIP clients 'time' value will start off counting from 0, not the real 'time' value. After about 2.5sec (on average), it will then jump to a high value and synchronise with the real 'time' value, which could be 900, for example. Therefore, do not use 'time' for any start of mission init timeouts; it's unreliable. (It's odd that it doesn't synchronise at the same time as public variables.)
Re: FOOTHOLD feedback - Alwarren - 08-18-2014
Also, time resets on mission load. If someone plays the mission on a non-dedicated server and reloads the saved game, time starts at zero again. It's generally not a good idea to use for anything but relative timing.
The easiest way to make things like this is to use something like
if (isServer) then {
 [] spawn { sleep <time in seconds until weather changes>; execVM "weatherCHange.sqf";};
};
i.e. only run it on the server, and rely on the weather synchronization.
IF you require a local effect (like, playing sound effects), things get a bit more complicated but not too much. In that case I would use
Code:
// Server only
if (isServer) then {
[] spawn {
CurrentWeather = "thunder";
publicVariable "CurrentWeather";
_changeTime = 60*5; // Five minutes
sleep _changeTime;
CurrentWeather = "clear";
publicVariable "CurrentWeather";
};
};
// Server and clients
if (hasInterface) then {
[] spawn {
if (CurrentWeather == "thunder") then {
// DO some stuff here to make it rain
while {CurrentWeather == "thunder"} do {
sleep 10; // Don't need to check all the time
};
// Weather is no clear, make it so
// <do the stuff to clear weather>
};
};
};The server side makes the changes here, and the client side reacts. Since a server might be hosted, the hasInterface function checks if this machine has an interface; this works on both dedicated servers as well as headless clients.
Hope this helps