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Re: The Debriefing Thread - Watchmen - 08-25-2014
Dont worry those were the only mines in the level at that junction before the town, misha maybe next time splitting up the leadership roles with the Fireteam leader and assigning them would help.
Going faster would have gotten everyone killed if there was danger. What could be done is to send in a fireteam to act as scouts to recon the road in portions on foot with the unarmed stryder following behind to move them across clear sections. Like the feelers of an ant that sends signals backwards. Then use the gmg turrets to give the long range support with the thermals and the fireteam will relay AT presence back to the convoy. I hope to try this mission one day myself and see how this goes, sounds like alot of fun
Re: The Debriefing Thread - doveman - 08-26-2014
(08-25-2014, 07:01 PM)Misha link Wrote:Rising Sun
And now word from the leader, myself.
It is not so pleasant when you jump in the coop and first (and only) mission you play is so demanding. Talking about logistics and communications. It was very busy most of the time, with people asking, responding, not responding, moving around for whatever reason, losing lr radios, ... This last thing was a reason for a longest delay in our movement from the enemy occupied town. However, there was no easy way through, we would have even more casualties if we had just went full speed with vehicles. Taking a longer route around is possible alternative option, may try it next time, but with mines everywhere, who knows.
Anyway, while I have always doubted my abilities as a leader, especially on missions like these that require tight coordination, I do have to say that you can always ask again what are standing orders if you're not sure.
I thought you did fine Misha. It's not even possible to tell how complicated a mission is going to be when volunteering to lead as you haven't even seen the briefing at that point (even at the briefing you can't always tell) and I tend to avoid doing so when there's a large amount of players, out of fear of finding it's too complex for me to lead, so thanks for having the guts to give it a go. I find it particularly difficult leading, even a squad, when you're in a vehicle much of the time, as it greatly reduces your situational awareness and ability to keep track of fast-moving units.
I don't know if it would have worked in this particular mission but perhaps in future if you find yourself leading similar missions, you could consider delegating leadership of Alpha to someone and then you can concentrate on the bigger picture and receiving reports and giving orders to the two squads, without having to micro-manage a squad yourself as well.
I only decided to take over leading my squad after Variable got killed, after waiting a bit with no-one else offering, as I don't really like taking over mid-mission and didn't really know what the plan was at that point, so I'm sure most of the confusion in my squad after that point was my fault.
Re: The Debriefing Thread - alias - 08-29-2014
Skiptro
I like doveman's style of leading, clean, clear, balanced. The whole mission, excepting moments of pause, i had trouble catching my breath since i was carrying AT equipment.
At the beginning we were told something about "realistic warfare" or something like that. What i don't get what ATVs and karts have to do with an assault mission? They break easily, they are loud, we are vulnerable, when we use them even a fly can kill us on high speed
I enjoyed the mission, but fatigue is something mission makers have to seriously consider now, that in combination with the distances you have to walk it has a dramatic impact over the length and gameplay.
Wall of fire
Between first 20 minutes and last 15 minutes i was very confused. I felt like a small piece in a bigger thing, i had no idea what happens despite i made the mission ???
Most of the time i was my squad' bodyguard. Variable did something unusual, he kept away from firefights and played the role of the commander, this is something i didn't expect. Nice coordination and maneuvers took us to success, i wish i had the bigger picture, tho was nice to see things from a low rank soldier perspective too.
Thanks to you guys i found a lot of things that didn't kicked in, i have more things to fix than i expected.
P.S.
I hope you will play this again after fixes. Same goes for FOOTHOLD. Thanks.
Re: The Debriefing Thread - doveman - 08-29-2014
Altis Airbase CSAT Assault
A variation on a familiar mission. The main difference being I led it and it took us twice as long as normal to complete
The Sniper team (Variable and UnNamedGER) got to their overwatch position quickly and reported they had two contacts on top of the hill. I got BlinDog to scan the factory area with the UAV, which appeared to confirm there were only the two infantry that we had already spotted visually. So after letting the Sniper team engage their contacts first, so that fire from the main squad didn't spook them and send them into hiding, we took out the two infantry. I then wasted too much time clearing the buildings, considering that the UAV hadn't spotted anything around there but I wasn't sure if it could see into buildings.
Then we advanced up the hill and spotted one contact at the top of the Southern tower, which I think we managed to take out, before we came under fire from within the camp. The Sniper team offered to sneak in from the North with their trusty pistols and take out the enemy from behind, so I re-positioned the main squad on the NW side, to keep us safe and avoid the risk of friendly crossfire. I thought the two squads worked brilliantly together here to lure out and clear the camp of the remaining enemy.
Then the sniper team were off North again to cover the Northern part of the base, where the personnel and HVT were, whilst the rest of us headed towards the Southern end to take out the vehicles. Unfortunately, we kept hearing an MRAP, so had to try and avoid that and then we got an urgent message from the Sniper team saying that they were in hiding, with an enemy patrol bearing down on them and needed assistance. So we started to move to them but luckily they managed to handle things themselves, as we were quite some distance away.
Whilst it seemed to work OK for the Sniper squad to get around quickly, I decided at the start not to use the quad-bikes for the main squad as we wouldn't have been able to drive them up the hill to assault the camp and would have had to ditch them before we advanced on the factory and the camp and then wasted time going back to get them. I'm sure we would have just driven into trouble (particularly vehicles) before we saw or heard it if we were on bikes anyway, so I think going on foot was the right approach for the main squad.
After sitting in a ditch for some time, with BlinDog unable to locate the MRAP with the UAV and mindful of people getting bored, I decided to lead the main squad South towards the enemy aircraft we had to destroy. Unfortunately, the MRAP found us during this push and we lost Alwarren and Varanon to it. I tried to first-aid Alwarren but couldn't save him. It got rather confusing from this point, as some people would get healed by first-aid, whilst for others it would get to 100% and then they'd die and respawn immediately next to their body but I understand now that it's random whether first-aid works or not (which I think sucks a bit, making you waste all that time first-aiding, only for them to die), it's just the respawn that shouldn't have been happening.
Anyway, pushing on to the base, we got pinned down for some time by enemy fire from the South and East and the Sniper team moved in to assist. Eventually we made it into the base and destroyed all the aircraft and the Sniper team moved into the control tower and from there covered the main squad as we advanced on the terminal, with the Sniper team bounding forward to the next tower as we pushed up. It was a struggle but I think most of us made it to the terminal building, however we took a lot of casualties once we moved inside. It's a tricky environment in there, as both sides are basically great big windows, so you're exposed to enemies outside as well as in but moving around the outside of the building probably isn't much safer.
Around this time, I think we got an additional HVT task and another strange task about taking out the traitor before he killed the squad leader, which appeared to be suggesting I needed to shoot one of my own squad (but with no indication who it might be), so I tried to ignore this, although it made me rather nervous that I was suddenly going to be attacked from somewhere! I think we took out the additional HVT anyway.
By now there was only three or four of us left but we pushed up to try and take out the vehicle that we'd been hearing and occasionally glimpsing, since the start of our advance into the Northern part of the base. It turned out to be a tank, which laughed off our 3 or 4 AT missiles but then I realised we weren't required to take it out anyway, so we turned tail and ran back to the terminal as fast as we could. I was pretty exhausted by now and although not that far away, it would have taken ages to walk to the Exfil point but luckily we found a truck by the terminal which got us to the boats in no time and we were out of there.
Great work everyone, only sorry I didn't manage to bring more of you home.
When Civilians Attack
Nice simple mission but enjoyable nonetheless and I think it's good to start off with something quite short, so that anyone who comes along a bit later isn't kept waiting too long for the next mission.
Wall of fire
Great mission, very atmospheric and nice to have something different from the norm. I really liked seeing the enemy torches in the distance, as it made me aware of there being enemies all around, not to mention gave me some idea where to shoot when they were close enough
Got a shock seeing a tank coming down the hill towards the house which my squadmates were in. Unfortunately, I was too slow trying to hide the Ifrit and it got blown up with McGregor and myself inside but luckily we survived after being patched up. I didn't have any luck with the Strela trying to take down those helicopters that kept buzzing us. It doesn't seem to lock but just goes in straight line, so I guess the helo needs to be coming head-on at you, or flying directly away, or holding still in a hover.
Red Herring
Nice to complete this one. It's a bit awkward without radios as it's easy to be out of range of direct chat and not hear when everyone moves off but after the first time this happened to me, I learnt to keep an eye on STHud to make sure I didn't get left behind. It was a bit of a "hunt the last man" at the end but it didn't take us too long to find him hiding in the ditch, so didn't bother me. I was a bit confused, as the task said Clear Agios (not sure of the name) and the map seemed to show that to be outside the blue area, to the south but the task marker was inside it and that did turn out to be the area we had to clear.
Re: The Debriefing Thread - doveman - 08-29-2014
(08-29-2014, 09:33 AM)alias link Wrote:I enjoyed the mission, but fatigue is something mission makers have to seriously consider now, that in combination with the distances you have to walk it has a dramatic impact over the length and gameplay.
It's an interesting point actually and makes me wonder if I should have put just the AT guys on ATVs and kept them back a bit, so that they didn't run into any enemies unexpectedly. That would have avoided you getting fatigued and having to rest, although it might have been a bit boring for you as you'd have missed a lot of the firefights and would only have got to do anything when there where vehicles for you to take out, which I don't think there were many of. I could have of course told you to regroup whenever we got into a firefight, so that you could assist with your rifles but it may well have been all over by the time you got to us, as driving straight to the our positions would probably have got you shot, so you'd have had to get off the bikes a bit behind us and then walk up.
In future, perhaps we should check at the start whether you can distribute some of your gear (spare missiles, even spare ammo or first aid) between the other players, to even out the load a bit and avoid any particular player getting more fatigued than the others.
Re: The Debriefing Thread - Alwarren - 08-29-2014
When Civilians Attack
Fun mission, made difficult by the fact that we didn't have radios. Worked out very well, good job everyone.
Altis Airbase CSAT Assault
Boy this mission was long. I guess it could have been sped up by going faster, but then, that call is easy to make after the facts. If I am honest, I wasn't too enthusiastic about the mission. I found it weird that special forces wouldn't have NVG's to begin with. I am all for taking them away from normal soldiers or not having them as guerrillas, but spec ops? It feels like an artificial restriction. Also, I didn't quite see the point to secure that base on the hill, there was hardly anyone there and no one that could have been a danger on the airport, so it would have made more sense to move around it.
I was killed way before we reached the airport by the MRAP that came up on us. Maybe the experience became better after that, but at that point we had been playing this for about 70 minutes, and it felt way too long.
I also greatly dislike the random death setting on Psycho's revive. I wouldn't mind if the player would die randomly without going into agony state, but going through a two minute healing just to die at the end of it is not a good idea IMO. If a medic or team member heals you 100%, you should live. I understand it's a fifty-fifty chance to die or survive. I am all for "hardcore", but this is just arbitrary. Like I said, having a 50% chance to die when you get hit, is something that I still find bogus but at least credible. Having a 50% chance when you are 100% healed is just weird.
Wall of Fire
Best mission of the evening, or, in fact, one of the best I have played so far. From the insertion to the extraction, everything about this mission was oozing liquid awesome. Having heard some of Variable's radio chatter, I can only emphasize again how important it is to CONFIRM your orders and not leave the squad leader guessing whether you understood what he wants from you or not. It's that part that makes leading particularly frustrating.
I am still not sure why I missed the tank with my RPG-42. Part of the problem was certainly that I didn't even see it, I could only see the brake lights, but it was at 515 meters from me and I aimed at the 500 meter mark. I didn't have any trouble hitting the Tigris later, twice.
Re: The Debriefing Thread - Misha - 08-29-2014
Wall of Fire
Good mission and nice touch adding little details to the scenery that mission makers normally don't do and artillery fireworks in the distance made nice view. Clearing town, setting up on a hill overlooking the target area, and finally moving in to destroy the antenna and truck, that's what bravo did before moving on to extraction area. Of course, planting charges and being suppressed by enemy AA vehicle was most intense and fun part. However, we lost Ifrit and McGreggor in the process.
When it comes to comms, as Alwarren pointed out they were far from flawless, with both Leader being very low on radio (was it mic problem, or just TF radio thing - not sure), as chatter in bravo was very lively I often had to ask for repeat, and me not hitting damn caps lock + ctrl button while trying to transmit over LR. Actually I find no reason to have this set up as having ctrl exclusively for LR would be easier to handle instead of having to press ctrl also which may result in activating SR (Arma's voip key is disabled anyway). But despite this execution didn't suffer.
Red Herring
I liked this one, great atmosphere, nice action during first two objectives, but clearing town was not so much, expected tougher resistance, maybe friendlies attacking from opposite side did most of the work, but weird thing is I only saw one tank, or was it apc, one dead infantry and that was it. Expected more epic battle. But still good mission and like this mission makers style.Â
Re: The Debriefing Thread - Variable - 08-29-2014
When Civilians Attack
It's cool to play without radios! Was fun to resort to smoke in order to communicate beyond hearing range.
Airport Assault Revised (CSAT)
Good games last night guys! Doveman that's one hell of a debriefing post. That's the way it should look. 90% after-action report and conclusions, 10% mission design feedback, and not the other way around. I loved reading how it went for you on the assault team while we were trying to be stealthy mofos. Good job on completing the mission against all odds.
On the Sniper team UnnamedGer and I had some nice sequences of moving with the ATV, spotting and shooting. At the end we died because I got impatient and ran like an idiot in the open (the airstrip, can't get more exposed than that) and got shot to pieces on the way to one of the control towers.
@Alias, Specops drive in much heavier vehicles than ATV in enemy territory after deployed by a heavy chopper... the ATV was a must at least for the sniper team.
@Alwarren, it's quite possible to lose someone while you try to stop his bleeding. In Psycho's revive script you can die instantly from a fatal hit, and die while someone is performing first aid on you. It's just realistic, I agree that it would have been better if you died before reaching 100%.
Wall of Fire
Great mission indeed. Leaders, make sure to relay your subordinates what's going on with the other teams. It will: a. prevent friendly fire incidents, b. keep them informed and not alienated from what's going on around them. c. They will know what to do if you die and be able to assume command much faster.
Misha, if anyone's voice is too low, let him know (especially if he's commanding). Most of the times it's easily fixable by just re-positioning the microphone or just speaking up. If that doesn't work, right click on the guy on TS, and increase his volume.
Re: The Debriefing Thread - Varanon - 08-29-2014
(08-29-2014, 01:29 PM)Misha link Wrote:Actually I find no reason to have this set up as having ctrl exclusively for LR would be easier to handle instead of having to press ctrl also which may result in activating SR (Arma's voip key is disabled anyway). But despite this execution didn't suffer.
I've actually set it up to use the two thumb buttons on my mouse for short and long range. I hate using caps lock for anything since it always messes up your keyboard.
Re: The Debriefing Thread - Alwarren - 08-29-2014
(08-29-2014, 07:50 PM)Variable link Wrote:@Alwarren, it's quite possible to lose someone while you try to stop his bleeding. In Psycho's revive script you can die instantly from a fatal hit, and die while someone is performing first aid on you. It's just realistic, I agree that it would have been better if you died before reaching 100%.
Well, the way I saw it was that it always waited until the unit was at 100% and THEN decided whether you survive or not. I am fine with dying in between, but once I reach 100%, I should be fine.
As a matter of fact, I would prefer it to not show a countdown on the downed player, and not stop the (now invisible) countdown and have the player die when it reaches zero (bleed out). I think that is how the original worked in Arma 2.
Re: The Debriefing Thread - doveman - 08-30-2014
(08-29-2014, 08:55 PM)Alwarren link Wrote:Well, the way I saw it was that it always waited until the unit was at 100% and THEN decided whether you survive or not. I am fine with dying in between, but once I reach 100%, I should be fine.
Yep, that's how it appeared to me as well. It would wait until you'd treated to 100% and then seemingly toss a coin to decide whether the player lived or died. As you say, if someone dies whilst you're trying to save them at 10%, 30% or whatever that would be OK and more realistic (although I'd still prefer it to be based on something other than the roll of the dice).
Re: The Debriefing Thread - Variable - 08-30-2014
You are both looking at it the wrong way. The bar-graph represents the procedure, not the patients' status. Think of it this way, you come to an unconscious soldier with a stopped heart and you try to bring him up. You try for two minutes and IF he doesn't regain consciousness, you declare him as dead and move on.
And about randomness, you can get a bullet to your thigh and it might end up in you heart in real life, and we don't expect Arma to simulate all the conditions that control the bullet travel through the organs and affect of bones and tissues on its route so I'm perfectly ok with the current level of randomness this Psycho's setting provides. Also, you might died instantly if the injury is severe enough.
Re: The Debriefing Thread - Outlawz7 - 08-30-2014
(08-29-2014, 12:37 PM)Alwarren link Wrote:I can only emphasize again how important it is to CONFIRM your orders and not leave the squad leader guessing whether you understood what he wants from you or not. It's that part that makes leading particularly frustrating.
I'm guessing this is for inter-squad comms, but I think that we should start all long range comms with a check; "x to y, over","x, come in" etc., at least when it's not an urgent enemy contact report.
I had Alpha communicate to me while one or two guys in my squad were speaking and at the end I only knew that Alpha talked to me, but not what was said. When I tried contacting Alpha, I went 'Alpha, this is Charlie' more than once in some cases, but at least when Alpha responded I knew he could listen.
Re: The Debriefing Thread - Variable - 08-30-2014
(08-30-2014, 09:51 AM)Outlawz7 link Wrote:I'm guessing this is for inter-squad comms, but I think that we should start all long range comms with a check; "x to y, over","x, come in" etc., at least when it's not an urgent enemy contact report.I thought I was doing just that ("Bravo, Alpha" when I'm Alpha and the recipient is Bravo's lead). I'll pay attention more closely next time.
I had Alpha communicate to me while one or two guys in my squad were speaking and at the end I only knew that Alpha talked to me, but not what was said. When I tried contacting Alpha, I went 'Alpha, this is Charlie' more than once in some cases, but at least when Alpha responded I knew he could listen.
Re: The Debriefing Thread - doveman - 08-30-2014
(08-30-2014, 12:01 PM)Variable link Wrote:I thought I was doing just that ("Bravo, Alpha" when I'm Alpha and the recipient is Bravo's lead). I'll pay attention more closely next time.
I certainly remember you were doing that on the mission I led. We should try and make sure we use this all the time, as it does help to ensure the recipient is ready to receive the message and avoids having to repeat it.
"Bravo, this is Alpha" might be easier for some people when initiating comms, as it's more obvious which way round it goes (recipient, sender) but "Bravo, Alpha" is fine too if people are comfortable with that. Then "Alpha, send" once the recipient is ready to receive. The sender should wait maybe 5s before re-trying, to give the recipient a chance to tell his squad "break, break" so that they know he needs to use LR and players need to be alert to the "break, break" message and not make their leader have to waste time repeating it. If the recipient can't receive at the moment because the squad is heavily engaged or whatever, then he should send something like "Alpha, hold, engaged" and once it's safe, "Alpha, Bravo, clear to send".