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Re: The Debriefing Thread - Variable - 09-25-2013
(09-25-2013, 08:38 PM)Varanon link Wrote:It is doable, but we also had no infantry with anti-tank capabilities.. that would have helped.Definitely! The first part was text-book executed, great leading on Varanon's part.
At least the first part of the operation went smoothly. I think we did quite well on this part.
About squad AT, I had a Carl Gustav, Misha had a LAW, the AI had CG missiles and we had another LAW In the Bradley.
Re: The Debriefing Thread - MavericK96 - 09-26-2013
I thought I had registered an account awhile back, but if I did I can't remember what name/pass I used. :p Plus, I was having issues with your server trying to post for some reason...just sat there attempting to load the forums forever. Anyway:
(09-25-2013, 02:23 PM)Variable link Wrote:24.9.13
Truck Stop Road: I like this mission, too bad the enemy decided that they won't allow us to rescue the KSK officer and killed him, twice! Tactically, I think we've found a good position to lay the ambush. The use of two elements proved to be optimal as well; support element, positioned to the right on an hillock, with long range optics to eliminate point threats such as enemy crew served weapons with heavy MGÂ and sniper fire, along with a main block element to prevent any vehicle to slip by.
Phantom, can the enemy somehow be prevented from shooting the hostage (a believable behavior actually, but makes the mission quite impossible).
Yep, fun mission...there was definitely some sort of bug going on (or just really bad luck) because the hostage was being shot without us shooting him, and without him getting out of the vehicle. I think we did a pretty good job, though, as a group.
(09-25-2013, 02:23 PM)Variable link Wrote:Nocturnal Raid: loved it. I was a bit disappointed that we had to use NVG all the way through it. As it was 7am, I thought it was about to be more lighted. We need to think what could be done to avoid friendly fire, it happens too much. These are the guidelines that must be kept at all times:
Do not open fire before positive IDing the target, even at the cost of let it survive.
Report when manning enemy vehicles and static weapons loudly and assertively to make sure everybody got it.
Report when moving into the fire arc of a friendly team. Especially when flanking the enemy or circling around an obstruction, friendly fire is likely to happen if you pop up at a position where friendliest are not expected.
Remain aware of friendly units positions and the general plan. I have a feeling most friendly fire incidents happened last night because of players didn't really pay attention to Teamspeak.
When directing a question to all units, use the negative form. Instead of asking "is everybody clear of the radar?" ask "I'm about to detonate, is there anyone still close to the radar?". The first form will just make people replying "yes" but sometimes they refer only to themselves (please avoid that people, when the leader asks a question that is addressed to the whole team, don't reply unless you know the condition of all units, and even then, don't just say "yes" or "no", phrase the reply in full, for example - "everybody is inside the chopper". This will remove any doubt)
I would like to emphasis one more thing: please do not enter vehicles without being ordered to.
Yeah, definitely had some issues with FF...part of that was due to both teams coming in on opposite sides (the first time anyway) and getting crossfire, as well as misplaced grenades (I admit, grenades are not the easiest thing to use in ArmA 2). I think the issue with the extraction chopper near the end and confusion about everyone being in the chopper was that our team (Red?) failed to call out that our team leader had died, so that was kind of our bad. There was also a bit of confusion and FF at the base there, too, so I think it got forgotten in the chaos.
(09-25-2013, 02:23 PM)Variable link Wrote:Fuel Shortage: Boy what a stressful mission...
Well, looking at bright side, thanks to ck-claw, we did identify a covert spot to lay the ambush, without alerting the tanks and before facing these damn Spetznaz. Any suggestions for the approach on the base phase so we won't be slaughtered by the Russians in the woods?
Fun mission...that ambush point the final time ended up working out well, though admittedly if any infantry had survived I would not have been able to see them through the smoke and trees from my position. Then the Spetznaz pretty much had their way with us after that. Still, it was good times.
My recommendation might be to just immediately book it away from the forest and try to avoid the patrols. Trying to fight ArmA 2 AI in that dense forest is just too difficult.
(09-25-2013, 02:23 PM)Variable link Wrote:Unsound Track: Never let vehicles move in the open without infantry support that flush out AT threat!!! It's even at BIS loading tips lol
That tank that blew you up was screened by a tree it knocked down. I should have warned you guys, cheater AI justifies bird recon...
Yeah...that was unfortunate. I think the only infantry squad was Variable, kMan and myself (after the DShK jeep got disabled) and the friendly AI was not really doing a whole lot to help us (from what I could tell). I liked the mission but we just went up against the AI vegetation advantage and lost.
Re: The Debriefing Thread - Varanon - 09-26-2013
(09-25-2013, 09:05 PM)Variable link Wrote:... and we had another LAW In the Bradley.
Damn, I forgot about that one.. that would have been a good way to get rid of the tank instead of trying it with the Bradley...
We'll have to try that one again at one point.
Re: The Debriefing Thread - Variable - 09-26-2013
I think I'll copy guidelines like the ones below to a seperate thread, so we won't have all our "lessons learned" hidden in this thread. Before I start doing that, any comments on the below or more ideas?
(09-25-2013, 02:23 PM)Variable link Wrote:...We need to think what could be done to avoid friendly fire, it happens too much. These are the guidelines that must be kept at all times:
Avoiding Friendly Fire Guidelines:
- Do not open fire before positive IDing the target, even at the cost of let it survive.
- Report when manning enemy vehicles and static weapons loudly and assertively to make sure everybody got it.
- Report when moving into the fire arc of a friendly team. Especially when flanking the enemy or circling around an obstruction, friendly fire is likely to happen if you pop up at a position where friendliest are not expected.
- Remain aware of friendly units positions and the general plan. I have a feeling most friendly fire incidents happened last night because of players didn't really pay attention to Teamspeak.
A Communication guideline:
When directing a question to all units, use the negative form. Instead of asking "is everybody clear of the radar?" ask "I'm about to detonate, is there anyone still close to the radar?". The first form will just make people replying "yes" but sometimes they refer only to themselves (please avoid that people, when the leader asks a question that is addressed to the whole team, don't reply unless you know the condition of all units, and even then, don't just say "yes" or "no", phrase the reply in full, for example - "everybody is inside the chopper". This will remove any doubt)
Re: The Debriefing Thread - Outlawz7 - 09-26-2013
(09-25-2013, 02:23 PM)Variable link Wrote:Well, looking at bright side, thanks to ck-claw, we did identify a covert spot to lay the ambush, without alerting the tanks and before facing these damn Spetznaz. Any suggestions for the approach on the base phase so we won't be slaughtered by the Russians in the woods?
Two things led to our demise there:
1. we disengaged the ambush in the direction of the next objective - north-west, and the enemy we fought was regular infantry at start, so they must have come from there.
2. our squad AI got engaged first because they were lagging behind us, forcing us to fight up that slope- or was that our decision? either way, it went bad. Looking at the area later as bird, there weren't actually much of them, but bunching up and fighting uphill got us massacred.
I think we should redo that mission with a full house or at least disable or stash the AI somewhere, would probably help whomever suffers from AI yelling RELOAD RELOAD RELOAD into infity.
Re: The Debriefing Thread - Varanon - 09-26-2013
(09-26-2013, 01:32 PM)Variable link Wrote:I think I'll copy guidelines like the ones below to a seperate thread, so we won't have all our "lessons learned" hidden in this thread. Before I start doing that, any comments on the below or more ideas?
I would also like to add some other things:
- Do not move too far off your assigned position on your own. Your team leader will want to know where you are
- Do not simply engage an enemy that is not aware of you. Report first, even if you are weapons free. If you fire, report the contact afterwards... where there's one, there's usually more
The latter part is from bad experience last time we played (or the time before that, can't remember exactly). Several times, I heard shots without any idea who shot and at what. When I asked, I got an answer, but this should be done "automatically" instead of only after being asked.
Re: The Debriefing Thread - ck-claw - 09-27-2013
co@12_ace_lima_grandfather_wolf
Hope i got the right mission according to swec?
What a 1st time experience for me in all the yrs playing Ofp/arma/arma2 -being the 'Under Cover' team.
Just randomly walking amongst the enemy like that- quite surreal infact!
Great listening to the commanders/squad leaders on ts co-ordinating the situation.
When Variable and the chaps try to secure Cherokee (btw Alwarren got capped in his knee of all places
 )- and i'm sat on the Dshk of all places covering while we're having trouble getting the civvies to move from blocking the enterance to the compound, So assault team given the all clear to open fire in a hope to scatter the blocking civvies? - which worked a treat!! Was great watching the 'Assault Team' tracers rain down on the town!Tbh im pretty sure we'd of been home and dry within minutes if it wasn't for Al's dodgy knee!!Â
Just kidding Al- my best experience with you guys thus farÂ
Re: The Debriefing Thread - MavericK96 - 09-27-2013
Yeah that was a good mission. I didn't do so well leading the Assault team, partly due to the fact that my sound cut out not even halfway through. I could still hear TS but no gunshots or anything, made it hard to figure out what was going on.
On reflection I do think the assault team was meant to invade the base, because there was an ammo crate at the start but nothing really long-range (other than an M107 that might have proven useful for the jeeps, once it got light) and plus it was pitch black at the start. The terrain around the town was geared toward either close-range combat or long-range...the middle ground was a deep enough valley that you couldn't see targets inside the town. I was stuck thinking we needed to provide overwatch from afar, and so I didn't feel as though I personally was very effective. The rest of the team performed admirably and did well at suppression.
Oh well, live and learn...leading is not something I'm used to doing.
I enjoyed flying the helo, that was fun. We should try more missions like that. I've been trying to get good with the A-10 in ACE but it is quite difficult. I understand how it all works (CCIP mostly) but it's still tough to get good accuracy even with that knowledge. Still, I'd be willing to give it a shot sometime.
EDIT: Also, HOLY CRAP WE FINALLY BEAT RIDERS!
Re: The Debriefing Thread - Variable - 09-27-2013
Varanon these are good, I'll add them to a new topic. I suppose we need that divided to several topics: "combat", "communication", "movement", "how to help your leader do his job", "effective leading" (we have one leading topic,but it's pretty old and it is not that good). Any other ideas?
LIMA Grandfather
Ck that was one hell of a ride indeed! I think it wasn't the first time for me going undercover in Arma, but this mission in particular was very polished and intense. I'm actually glad that things messed up with the target drawing an AK and firing, made us divert to plan B - take him out and search his body for intel while taking out the armed guys around. Llauma did a good job covering the flank there, at least once he saved my sorry ass. Getting Alwarren out added a nice drama to the mission. Thank god to ACE that allowed us to put him in the vehicle and drive him to safety. Jeez look at all the stuff that went bad - civilians crowding at the entrance, target opening fire, leader almost dying, vehicle busted forcing us to take over a civilian vehicle. That was really intense!
The assault team aspect - I realize that for you guys it was less intense, we should really try this again switching roles and putting the assault team I a tighter role. However, know this - your feint attack really made lots of the guards leaving the target's compound. Once we opened up it was hard as it is, so it's safe to assume that without your actions, we wouldn't make it!
MavericK,I think you did a good job, don't blame yourself for the lack of enough action, after all, you only followed the plan as it was laid out by the covert team.
That's an interesting aspect - the balance between fun and an effective plan. We witnessed that conflict also on the arms dealer mission. Sometime completing the mission is easier using a simpler, less intense and less interesting approach. However, when it's up to me when leading, I will ALWAYS prefer the more fun plan, even if it compromises our safety or the mission. Please remember that when I end up leading us all to our certain death hehe. That's what we did on the arms dealer mission, but less on the snatch and grab mission.
Wild Riders
Great job on Wild Riders completion all! We took heavy losses at the start due to a bit dangerous plan that used to work better several times before. The ASR AI is unpredictable and managed to put up a better resistance than we were used to when assaulting the base. Metalcraze, great job on leading the team to success although it was your first time on the mission. I helped with a lot of spoiling but only because the mission is extremely hard, especially in its ACE version, and also because it was about the tenth time we tried it and we were getting worned out.
Although some extent of frustration, I enjoyed every try of that mission, thanks Phantom!
Re: The Debriefing Thread - Outlawz7 - 09-27-2013
This might help?
[url=
Re: The Debriefing Thread - ck-claw - 09-27-2013
(09-27-2013, 12:53 PM)Variable link Wrote:I will ALWAYS prefer the more fun plan
Which reminds me... That crazy ass 'Kraze' - All we had to do in the other mission was blow that bloody ammo crate!!
But ohhh nooo-he was hell bent on loading it in the vehicle!!( which involved slinging said vehicle to us). Taking it back to base then blowing it!!!
Bloody loved him for that!!Â
Re: The Debriefing Thread - Variable - 09-27-2013
(09-27-2013, 02:52 PM)Outlawz7 link Wrote:This might help?Sure, but I think this video is addressed to less experienced players than us.
Re: The Debriefing Thread - MavericK96 - 09-28-2013
(09-27-2013, 08:32 PM)ck-claw link Wrote:Which reminds me... That crazy ass 'Kraze' - All we had to do in the other mission was blow that bloody ammo crate!!
But ohhh nooo-he was hell bent on loading it in the vehicle!!( which involved slinging said vehicle to us). Taking it back to base then blowing it!!!
Bloody loved him for that!!Â
Haha...I admit that I like messing around with the extra ACE stuff that you don't use most of the time, like loading up the Humvee onto the Blackhawk was pretty fun (when you finally figure it out, that is).
(09-27-2013, 12:53 PM)Variable link Wrote:That's an interesting aspect - the balance between fun and an effective plan. We witnessed that conflict also on the arms dealer mission. Sometime completing the mission is easier using a simpler, less intense and less interesting approach. However, when it's up to me when leading, I will ALWAYS prefer the more fun plan, even if it compromises our safety or the mission. Please remember that when I end up leading us all to our certain death hehe. That's what we did on the arms dealer mission, but less on the snatch and grab mission.
Yeah, I agree with you 100%. It is good to play smart and tactically, but in the end it is a game and the objective is to have fun. If that means risking your virtual life a bit to have more fun, so be it. Though, I will say that in something like Wild Riders where we were so close to winning near the end, it was ideal to just sit back and wait for the opportune moment to avoid screwing it up. But in LIMA Grandfather it definitely would have been more fun for the Assault Team to head into the town a lot sooner. I think maybe approaching from the West, taking out the mounted HMG and drawing fire from there might have been a bit more action-filled.
On another subject, I like those missions where there are only a couple of objectives, like that one we played where we ambushed the tanks and then got killed by Spetznaz on the hill. It's nice in that it doesn't take a lot of time to set up, so if you mess up or want to change the plan, it is no big deal to restart the mission and try again. With some of the longer missions it can take up a whole session with just a couple of tries.
Not that longer missions aren't fun, they can be for sure. A balance is nice.Â
Re: The Debriefing Thread - Alwarren - 09-28-2013
(09-28-2013, 07:55 AM)MavericK link Wrote:Haha...I admit that I like messing around with the extra ACE stuff that you don't use most of the time, like loading up the Humvee onto the Blackhawk was pretty fun (when you finally figure it out, that is).
One of the thing that annoys me about most ACE missions is that they don't use ACE features. I have made two ACE missions before, and I always tried to somewhat use ACE specific features if possible.
It's too bad that this specific feature bugged out on us. I liked the approach to ferry the cache back, much better than yet another explosion
Re: The Debriefing Thread - Variable - 09-28-2013
Actually, did it bugged out? The debriefing said mission accomplished, so maybe the crate was "loaded" after all...
Even if it didn't, so be it...