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I think we need a debriefing thread that shall act both as an after-action-review discussion as well as just sharing experiences from our coop nights. It will help us identify and discuss what can be done better in our fighting as well as what missions are preferred, making admining more adapted to the players' preferences.

Please leave this discussion clear of comments about mission design, or bugs. Pretend this is real combat Smile

Adding helpful links: if you need a reminder about what missions were played or what was the name of a particular mission, visit our CiA server page on swec:
Arma 3 CiA server missions log.

So here goes!

Last night was great, phantom's missions starred with "Carrier Corruption" and "Cache Register", and we played also two official RHS missions (that apparently come as part of the mod itself, missed them until two days ago). The RHS missions were very nice, the one a raid on a town and the other had us protecting an ambushed convoy until evacuation forces arrived. That one was really intense, almost no maneuvering at all, just dig in by the wrecks and fight of waves of CDF infantry. That was cool and thanks to KmAn's medical abilities we were able to finish the mission without anyone getting killed.


Carrier corruption
Still a challenge on the carrier, but we seemed to have a identified a tactic to overcome the tough resistance on the carrier bridge, before we had to switch to a bigger mission - hug the wall to avoid getting shot from above, reach the double doors and shoot the damn officer and pilots. Get the keys. Have two guys get the Cobra while the other two take cover. Take off and move away from the carrier fast and low, turn around and use the gunner's cannon to shred the carrier's tower and kill all the infantry. That probably is the easiest way to deal with them although there probably some that are still alive somewhere, because the objective didn't tick. Any suggestions on that?
Carrier Corruption - There's really not much that can be done there, with all the enemies sitting on top just waiting for you to stick out your nose. I would actually say thet "kill them all" on the carrier is a needless complication of the process. Plus, I checked with the camera later on when I was shot down, and the last remaining guy as half inside the carrier's tower... no way we could have killed him.


Cache Register - One remark  about the mission itself: It has too many objectives... and no logical connection between them. Having said that, great atmosphere. Namalsk always makes dark a bit darker.

The tactics, I think, were pretty solid. Of course, the capital error we all made was to drive too far without having any eyes on the terrain. It was natural that at one point, we would run into a patrol and get killed. And when I took over the lead, I made the same mistake and ran into a truck loaded with enemies... Moving too far ahead without stopping once in a while and surveying the terrain is a no-go in an unarmored vehicle. But that's usual for long missions, you tend to become impatient.

High Beams - The objective was to collect intel from a radar side, then move to the coast to disable coastal defenses to enable extraction (I was leader).

The terrain was horrible, hills, forests, night. In such a terrain, you get surrounded quickly. Add to that that the enemy was far superior in force and had multiple vehicles. My initial plan was to avoid contact until we reach the Radar site, which was successful. The radar site was heavily guarded, Outlawz suggested a feint attack on one of the vehicles, disabling it in the process and drawing out the enemy forces. The idea was good, but I think I chose the wrong sport for the ambush. The terrain was too densely forested and didn't give us any advantage. However, I doubt that we could have found much better terrain, anyway. After a few engagements, our withdrawal lead into an ambush that had us all killed.

The withdrawal wasn't towards the enemy, but still too close to known enemy positions. I guess that was the biggest mistake I made...

Edit: Thanks for the Linkx, Variable, corrected the mission name
(09-23-2013, 09:56 AM)Varanon link Wrote:Carrier Corruption - ...I would actually say thet "kill them all" on the carrier is a needless complication of the process.
I think so too. Tactically it should be enough to to steal the choppers. There's a saying that is related to Gaddafi that goes "we already stole the grapes, why kill the guard?" that fits perfectly here. However, gameplay wise,  once stealing the choppers it's easy, and quite fun to light them all up. Also can serve as a revenge for all the times they killed us. haha!

(09-23-2013, 09:56 AM)Varanon link Wrote:Cache Register - One remark  about the mission itself: It has too many objectives... and no logical connection between them. Having said that, great atmosphere. Namalsk always makes dark a bit darker.
I just love that mission. That bridge, that armored fight with the reinforcements, that train station, the Spetznaz that just fit the scene perfectly, just wonderful. It's hard and long but I think we can do it! Just need to start it a bit earlier since it's long. Completing it would be greatly gratifying.

(09-23-2013, 09:56 AM)Varanon link Wrote:Plus, I checked with the camera later on when I was shot down, and the last remaining guy as half inside the carrier's tower... no way we could have killed him.
Not even with FFAR fire?

(09-23-2013, 09:56 AM)Varanon link Wrote:Cache Register - One remark  about the mission itself: It has too many objectives... and no logical connection between them. Having said that, great atmosphere. Namalsk always makes dark a bit darker.
I just love that mission. That bridge, that armored battle with the reinforcements, that train station, the Spetznaz that just fit the scene perfectly, just wonderful. It's hard and long but I think we can do it! Just need to start it a bit earlier since it's long. Completing it would be greatly gratifying.

(09-23-2013, 09:56 AM)Varanon link Wrote:The tactics, I think, were pretty solid. Of course, the capital error we all made was to drive too far without having any eyes on the terrain. It was natural that at one point, we would run into a patrol and get killed. And when I took over the lead, I made the same mistake and ran into a truck loaded with enemies... Moving too far ahead without stopping once in a while and surveying the terrain is a no-go in an unarmored vehicle. But that's usual for long missions, you tend to become impatient.
Indeed, I take full responsibility about the first incident for which I paid with my virtual Spetznaz life. As you say, it was very late (I went to bed at 02:30), and I tend to get suicidal when it's late.


(09-23-2013, 09:56 AM)Varanon link Wrote:The Sander Mission (forgot the name) - The objective was to collect intel from a radar side, then move to the coast to disable coastal defenses to enable extraction (I was leader).
That was "High Beams". I guess we are expected to kill them all, I just don't see how we can get there undetected. Maybe one operator should try to crawl his way in? In any case, the battle that developed afterwards was awesome.

(09-23-2013, 09:56 AM)Varanon link Wrote:The withdrawal wasn't towards the enemy, but still too close to known enemy positions. I guess that was the biggest mistake I made...
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I don't see how we could have avoided that ambush. It could have been anywhere. It seems like only large quantities of pure luck are needed to sneak out of that Russian infested area.
co06_the_car_chase was a pointless mission. Take out a fleeing car on foot when you have a black hawk at your disposal is stupid. It ended with the AI black hawk taking out the car short after dropping us off.

Cache Registeris way too big. We're 5 infantry guys attacking a crowded island. In the beginning there's some interaction with the AI tanks but after that it drops in quality. If we could man those tanks instead there's no need for infantry involvement.
(09-23-2013, 10:55 AM)Llauma link Wrote:
If we could man those tanks instead there's no need for infantry involvement.
Phantom actually made a bigger version of the mission for 15 players that has those tanks manned.
Variable link Wrote:Not even with FFAR fire?

He was half in a wall, I have my doubts about that...

Variable link Wrote:I just love that mission. That bridge, that armored battle with the reinforcements, that train station, the Spetznaz that just fit the scene perfectly, just wonderful. It's hard and long but I think we can do it! Just need to start it a bit earlier since it's long. Completing it would be greatly gratifying.

It's just too many unconnected objectives, and too much resistance. No one would do that with just one team.


Variable link Wrote:Indeed, I take full responsibility about the first incident for which I paid with my virtual Spetznaz life. As you say, it was very late (I went to bed at 02:30), and I tend to get suicidal when it's late.

Well, I made the same mistake shortly after, so....



Variable link Wrote:That was "High Beams". I guess we are expected to kill them all, I just don't see how we can get there undetected. Maybe one operator should try to crawl his way in? In any case, the battle that developed afterwards was awesome.
I don't see how we could have avoided that ambush. It could have been anywhere. It seems like only large quantities of pure luck are needed to sneak out of that Russian infested area.

Yeah, the battle was cool.

But the retreat should have been more towards the south, away from the enemy. Of course, there was always the possibility that there's more to the south as well, or we could have run into another vehicle.

Overall, I think there wasn't much that we could have done. Any detection would have resulted in all of them on our ass, so I assume that sooner or later, it would always come to this..
(09-23-2013, 10:55 AM)Llauma link Wrote:co06_the_car_chase was a pointless mission. Take out a fleeing car on foot when you have a black hawk at your disposal is stupid. It ended with the AI black hawk taking out the car short after dropping us off.

Yeah, apart from the technical problem (chopper was on full alert and didn't wait for us to be dropped off), the premise was pretty nonsensical. This is the typical drone strike scenario that the US is so keen on doing recently.

The thing with Sander's missions is that he throws everything at you when you get spotted and after that it's just sweeping up stragglers. He does space it out sometimes, but the first thing you should always do in a Sander mission is pick a spot to fight then draw them out.

The main issue is that non-patroling squads in his missions are on a Guard waypoint, which means the leader gets the last known position of the enemy when someone spots them and then directs the squad to attack it.
Ideally, you should always move after initial engagement, even if it's a 100m so that you can ambush the squads coming to investigate your last position. This worked very well on High Beams because it was a night mission and the enemy had no idea what to look for when they reached the spot and simply ran into us, at least sometimes.
We also should have ditched the SAWs IMO, because at night you can only see where the enemy is by muzzle flashes and every time Lefty started suppressing he was the first to get shot.
So maybe we can use that to our advantage. Distract the "Guard" guys by a feint attack and leave one guy close to the radar hiding in a bush to sneak in once the guards leave?
Two weaknesses:
1. I suppose these guys by the radar are not on "Guard" waypoint and will stand their grounds even if an enemy is detected.
2. We are too few as it is and splitting the force even more is dangerous.

Quote:The thing with Sander's missions is that he throws everything at you when you get spotted and after that it's just sweeping up stragglers.


But only if you want to play sitting duck and survive long enough to see the remnaints ;-). Obviously often enough you will be outnumbered and/or flanked by the enemy. What means: You will be forced to keep on moving. What all in all is quite realistic in my opinion and gives plenty of room for "General Tacticus"...


As mentioned in variables post, you therefore will have to decide, if you can afford to split in two teams covering each other or use terrain for gun-run-and-cover movement - in any way the mission will get much more dynamic! I love this kind of hunting in Arma :-)... (although i know this is very demanding for the leader to implement those tactics online).


I would in any way judge a mission where we engange, disengage, flank the enemy and die more a success than a mission where we just engage, blow the enemy off in one big fight and win... Thats my 2ct for the missions/missionmakers using "guard" ;-).
Quote:Two weaknesses:
1. I suppose these guys by the radar are not on "Guard" waypoint and will stand their grounds even if an enemy is detected.

But even then, maybe it will work out, if you engange, disengage, check for "Seekers" and engage again (maybe from another angle, if terrain allows)? And if no "guards" will come your way, you can always go back to your original engaging positions and engage again, so nothing lost, right?

(09-23-2013, 08:03 PM)Fat Tony link Wrote:But even then, maybe it will work out, if you engange, disengage, check for "Seekers" and engage again (maybe from another angle, if terrain allows)? And if no "guards" will come your way, you can always go back to your original engaging positions and engage again, so nothing lost, right?
Quite possibly. I wonder if we leave two guys in a bush next to the radar and have the other three draw fire - maybe then some or most of the guards next to the radar will leave to chase the three down, increasing the chance for the two guys to crawl in and steal the intelligence.
Yay, this will indeed be "Tactics" :-). Dont let me miss this try, will ya?  8)
Sure thing! Tuesday? Wink
Variable - Like the debriefing idea
Didn't find 'carrier corruption' very interesting. Too many buggy elements trying to get all the enemy.
'High Beams' was really interesting but difficult. The forest and hilly terrain is brutal.
I'm still working out the complexities of squad tactics in Arma.
Good times
Lefty